romney is losing his lead in those counties. and i think part of it is through mistakes that need not have been made. he was campaigning in toledo, ohio, which is never ever going to vote for him. what are they doing putting him there? but at any rate, i don't think the debates will change anything either the polls are showing one thing in spite of all the advertising, no americans are changing their opinion. so the whole thing comes down to voter participation. the democrats are apathetic and the republicans are not energized. so both sideses are having trouble getting their people to actually show up on that day. >> the swing voters, the small number of people -- >> i think the polls are showing for the first time in many elections there is no swing vote. it's only about how many of each side actually show up. it's voter participation, not swing. >> so all the debates can really offer is some sort of message that the people will key on. >> enough to say instead of watching a football game that day, i'll actually go to the poll